London User Group Meeting

The Pirate Castle, Camden Town.

Wednesday 5^th October 2011

1900 – 2150

Agenda;

1. Welcome & introductions - Jon Guest

2. Review of previous notes - Jon Guest

3. Questions from the floor

4. BW General - Jon Guest

5. Towpath Ranger - Dick Vincent

6. London Moorings - Sally Ash

7. Enforcement - Nick Wattam

8. Engineering - Phil Adshead

9. Maintenance - Sam Thomas

10. Olympics - Jon Guest

Please note that due to the late finish of the meeting it was agreed that the Engineering item would be covered by an attached presentation with the minutes and that Enforcement and Maintenance had been covered within questions already raised during the meeting.

Apologies were received from:

Roger squires, John Castle and John Ellis (BW).

BW attendees;

Jon Guest London Waterways Manager

Sally Ash Head of Boating

Nicholas Wattam Enforcement

Sam Thomas Maintenance Manager

Phil Adshead Principal Waterway Engineer

Dick Vincent Towpath Ranger

Sarah Emmings Olympic Project Manager

Public Attendees;

M. J Clark NSBC

Bob Langley LSCC

Gary Aldam BS Canoe Club

John Smith Stort Boat Club

Helen Smith Stort Boat Club

Paul Ayres HNBOC, CBOA, IWI

Robbie Barrett

Sue Barrett

Gordon Meenn F of RC Camden

John Godier H & F Historic Building

Paul Strudwick IWA London

Matt Duke Canal view resident

Graham Butler Ramblers Greater London

John Shacklock IWA Lee & Stort

Beresford A Casey Resident

A Stott

Simon Robbins NABO London Waterways Commission

Amanda Evans Resident Ass. Kensal Green

Michael Millership Resident

Lewis Towns Trade Customer

Michele Towns Residential Narrow boater

Trevor Gillam AWCC & WLMCC

Lester May Camden History Society

Dohne Arnold Noel Rd. resident

John Checkley Angel Community NB

Ian Shacklock Friends of Regents Canal

Stephanie Brooks Resident

John Frazer Broxbourne Cruising Club

Roger Wilkinson IWA north & east London

Robin Bishop IWA Middx.

Keith Clayton IWA Middx

Sandra Green HNBOC

Fiona Maclean LNBA

Michael Stimpson BMF

Steve Wickes Ramney Marsh Cruising Club

Marie Bryant Towpath user

Meeting commenced 1900 hours

Jon Guest welcomed everyone, the British Waterways staff introduced themselves and the minutes of the last meeting were approved.

Questions from the floor

Keith Clayton; Keith thanked BW for the work done on the Slough Arm prior to the festival, an improvement but still difficult to navigate. Can BW confirm that the Slough Arm is still in the dredging plan and are details available of what is planned for the area?

Jon Guest confirmed it was still in the plan but dredging is a national operation so no further information was available however a survey was planned for the next day the outcome of which would determine the action taken.

Paul Ayres; regarding the property at the end of Slough Arm, will the plans for development as an amenity ever come to fruition?

Jon Guest advised this was still in negotiation with the developer but the current economic climate was not helping, things are moving albeit slowly.

Bob Langley; how can BW justify a 6.4% increase in the general license fee this year? and would the Directors please reconsider.

Sally Ash reminded the floor that this was part of a 3 year formula as previously advised when the plan was put in place; it had been a balanced and difficult decision linking the increases to the consumer price index plus 2%. It could be reconsidered but an alternative source of income would have to be found and it must also be borne in mind that this is fixed for 3 years so customers have more opportunity to plan.

Steve Wickes; as income from boating is a relatively small proportion of BWs’ income can this large increase really be justified especially when for example the Angling license has not been increased? Also, this course of action could cause an increase in the number of unlicensed craft, and could the money not have been saved if the Lee Consultancy and proposals that have now been shelved not happened?

Sally Ash commented fees for granting licences for different uses are made by reference to the market for those uses. Boating demand is substantially stronger than for angling (which is in decline) which is why the fees for boat licences are higher. In spite of above inflation fee increases in recent years, boat numbers have held up and licence evasion is down. The arrival of the Canal and River Trust will open the way for the sharing of the burden of income raising for waterway maintenance more widely through the development of voluntary fundraising campaigns.

Mick Clark; if fishing is declining why are there still so many clubs?

Sally Ash responded that even with limited memberships these clubs act as another set of eyes and ears on the waterways which can only be beneficial to BW.

Jon Guest noted that London used to have many clubs all of which have now gone due to dwindling memberships.

It was noted that no anglers were present at the meeting.

Simon Robbins reminded the meeting that BW has a statutory duty to maintain the waterways irrespective of the number of boats.

Jon Guest confirmed for the meeting that all towpath improvements in London this year had been paid for by third parties therefore releasing funds back to the waterways.

Sally Ash referred the meeting to the annual report and it was confirmed that the analysis would be made available.

G. Aldam; being involved in a local canoe club litter is a problem, would there be any objections to them litter picking?

Sam Thomas confirmed litter is a problem, regarding this specific area there is a dedicated craft which is partly council funded on its’ way to help resolve the problem.

Amanda Evans; why has the litter, weed problem been so bad this year and not appear to be cleared frequently enough? This occurred both on the water and on the towpaths and who should be contacted to report such areas? Does the water get tested for pollution? Should lighting be considered?

Sam Thomas explained that litter and weed clearance is dealt with by a fixed term contract which includes the frequency of collections normally on a weekly basis. However, ‘hot spots’ are identified and the frequency can be adjusted.

This year not only did we have the worse known outbreak of weed but it is also apparent that the amount of ‘turnover’ has also increased dramatically.

Over 100 tonnes of weed was harvested from Little Venice and the Paddington Arm this year and despite rumours London Waterways have not auctioned any of their kit that is used to deal with this problem.

Water testing is carried out by the Environment Agency, but if we get a report of suspected pollution / contamination then our local London Environmental team will test and work in conjunction with any other agencies involved.

Traditionally towpaths have not been lit, BW will encourage [only where suitable] local developers to install and, more importantly, maintain lighting.

Post meeting note; please contact our London Enquiries desk; telephone 0207 985 7200 or email enquiries.london@britishwaterways.co.uk to report excessive weed and rubbish.

Lester May; litter is a problem all over London, although the tow paths in the area of the Constitution Pub are normally kept clean the water in that area is particularly bad and passing staff no longer clear it as they pass, also the lighting box for that area has been removed, why is this?

Sam Thomas responded, the light box was removed as it had been vandalised and there is no money to repair it. It is envisaged that all new lighting will now involve local contractors and developers and include not just installation but a contract to maintain too.

Sam explained that there are 6 members of staff to cover from the aqueduct at Park Royal through to Little Venice, the Regents, Hertford Union and Paddington Arm canals. At this level of staffing careful planning of works is essential and BW now plan to allow for 20% re-active works and 80% pre-planned. This is a complete turnaround from how it used to work and is proving to be far more cost effective.

Lester stated that whereas on a road or path as a member of the public he can clear litter as he sees it the community have to rely on BW to do this on the water.

Jon Guest noted that we already involve the community with the various volunteer programmes we run in addition to working with the probation service and local business’s.

Simon Robbins; recognising how tight the budget is for BW how realistic is it for BW to keep to budget and maintain standards?

Jon Guest responded that BW is striving to maintain standards but recognise that more funding would allow us to address problems when they first occur and before they escalate into major problems.

Dohne Arnold; what is BW doing to address the problem of smoke from boats with particular attention to Noel Road in Islington?

Nick Wattam confirmed that the local council will be contacting the local residents regarding this issue and also added that the correct signage was now in place with regards to the running of engines and generators.

Sue Barratt; with the additional winter mooring sites being added for this year will there still be space for the constant cruisers that do not take winter moorings and how will this be policed?

Nick Wattam advised that as normal approximately 50% of each site would be put over to winter moorings. At present Nick is working hard to turn the current 90% re-active enforcement figures around and this should improve as there are additional staff on their way to include 1 enforcement officer on a 12 month secondment and another data checker on a 6 month contract. With increased staffing levels and more opportunity to book a mooring it is hoped that over staying and associated problems will decrease.

Adrian asked regarding dredging on the Hertford Union, none seems to have happened recently and the situation is getting serious as is the vegetation.

Sam Thomas responded that dredging is taking place focusing on the bridge holes [during 2012] and volunteer groups will be attending to the vegetation.

Fiona Maclean stated that although sites have been signed for winter mooring they often appear empty.

Nick Wattam explained that winter moorings do not have to be taken for the full 5 month period and therefore not all berths will have craft on them all the time.

Could BW confirm the current process for enforcement?

Nick Wattam explained that a notice to vacate in 14 days would be issued, if the craft does not leave then a 2^nd letter would be issued and overstay charges may also be invoiced. At this point it involves almost daily visits to the site.

It was asked whether BW did any of its’ own dredging and associated surveying etc for dealing with rubbish in the canals, and do we encourage local business’s to get involved?

Jon Guest confirmed dredging is a national contract, BW London do own some craft but these are designed more for surface litter. When appropriate local contractors will be used.

Sam Thomas advised with regards to local companies, we do already operate schemes which are proving successful, i.e. Sainsbury’s already involve their staff in volunteer days and pay us for their trolleys which they collect once we have retrieved them from the water.

It is hoped that this type of scheme will flourish when we become a new charity but it is recognised that more help is needed, during September in London 54 ‘volunteer days’ were recorded.

Helen Smith asked how BW intend to address the problem and education of the ever increasing numbers of inexperienced boaters especially as there are known cases of abuse from inexperienced boaters not understanding the basic rules?

There was a general discussion the key points of which were;

When a craft is licensed or changes hands and the correct forms used the owner signs to confirm they have read, understood and will abide the terms and conditions which are available on the web site.

Our staff are always available to advise regarding these terms and conditions.

There was concern shown that license renewals do not get sent out with a copy of the terms and conditions.

There is an on-going debate with the NBOA regarding overstaying charges.

Overstaying on visitor moorings adjacent to winter moorings will no longer be tolerated.

It was accepted that it is the responsibility of all users of the waterways to challenge and inform new boaters, however it is recognised that this can put the individual in a challenging position and is not always appropriate. BW staff have also found themselves in abusive situations.

Post meeting note; any incidents can be reported to the London Enquiries Team using the same details as above.

Jon Guest then gave the meeting a presentation outlining the arrangements required in London during the Olympic period next year.

After some general discussion and clarification the consensus was that a far greater demand had been put upon BW London than had been perceived by the attendees, add this to the inevitable unsettling effects as BW move to becoming a charity it was recognised that BW London had done far more to reduce the impact of the Olympics on Londons Canals and its’ users than realised and this should be appreciated.

Jon Guest questioned whether he was at the right meeting – and thanked the audience for their comments

It was asked whether a partial refund on license fees would be acceptable as craft on the River Lee can only access the rest of the canal system via the Thames during the 2 and a half months that Commercial Road and the Hertford Union locks will be closed, and would BW be organising conveys for boaters that have no tidal water experience?

BW will not be organising conveys but will help and faciltate customers as best they can, there will be no license refunds. Research on last years figures show only 20% of craft with home moorings on the Lee and Stort have canal and river licenses, the option is there to license for river only at no detriment to the customer and BW are under no obligation to refund as per the terms and conditions. An example given was that no-one is expecting a refund on their road tax for all the road closures and restrictions so why should the navigation be different, the access is still there just not by the preferred route.

It was asked what provision was being made for the constant cruisers and will there still be access to Little Venice Sanitary Station?

Sally Ash advised that a meeting had been arranged with the London Boaters Group to discuss these plans and that provision would be made. With regards to sanitary arrangements ‘Lavender’ boats will be deployed to service all craft on moorings within the restriction zone.

Post Meeting Note; BW have since learnt that the current mobile sanitary service provided by a local ‘coal boat’ still intends to provide its services on the lower section of the GU and the Paddington Arm up to the control point at Little Venice.

It was asked how customers with home moorings would be informed especially for those that use normal sanitary stations and why was there no consultation on this?

A letter was sent to customers with home moorings but it appears that a fair number of customers have been missed and BW will re-issue the advice.

Post meeting note; an A4 notice is attached showing the contact details for all Olympic enquiries, if you are a member or know members of clubs, have a notice board at your home mooring etc. that would benefit from this information please do pass this on and help us to help you reduce the impact, thank you.

It was questioned whether the change to a charity would change the working practises of BW, whether the User Group Meeting would still be in the same format and the status of ‘Partners’.

Sally Ash and Jon Guest explained that there would be some change but working cultures do not change overnight, whether the User Group Meetings carry on in the same format is not known but the need for keeping the channels of communication open and accessible is recognised and valued.

Sally Ash then updated the meeting with regards to the plans for the River Lee and how we now have the required information for BW to go forward and change and improve the constant cruising rules.

Simon Robbins pointed out that roving permits was already in dispute at a national level, it was also asked what would be expected of boaters and whether the new trustees recognise that fact that the River Lee & Stort is already full.

Sally Ash confirmed that no decision had been made about introducing roving mooring permits but that they remain an option. NABO has formed a view on their legality which BW, advised by its lawyers, does not share

Due to the time it was agreed that the Engineering and Towpath Rangers reports would be attached to these minutes.

It was also noted that it was good to see local residents attending the meeting and hoped that this would be sustained.

Meeting closed at 2150 hours.

Advance question not answered prior to meeting;

Is there a reduction for those who paid a higher licence short term fee, during the period before it was reduced again?

Not automatically, however those affected should apply to the Boat Licensing Team in Leeds and each case will be looked at individually.